Who doesn’t love a list? Listicles are a natural evolution of the scrolling, skimming, social media-dominated culture that characterizes so many online interactions. But to become more than pop culture mashups, listicles must offer value to both consumers and advertisers. Want to create fun, quick-to-read listicles that can drive sales? Listen to this episode of DMS Live to discover the 7 qualities your listicles need to have to achieve stellar results.
Who doesn’t love a list? Listicles are a natural evolution of the scrolling, skimming, social media-dominated culture that characterizes so many online interactions. But to become more than pop culture mashups, listicles must offer value to both consumers and advertisers. Want to create fun, quick-to-read listicles that can drive sales? Listen to this episode of DMS Live to discover the 7 qualities your listicles need to have to achieve stellar results.
0:00:06.4 Melissa Ledesma: Welcome and thank you for joining us on DMS Live, a webinar series from DMS that is packed with performance advertising best practices, key insights and tips to help you achieve all of your long and short term wins. My name is Melissa Ledesma. I'm the VP of Communications here at Digital Media Solutions and I will be your moderator today. DMS Live is a series presented by leaders across DMS, a leading provider of technology-enabled digital performance advertising solutions. In today's episode of DMS Live, the seven qualities of an effective listicle that results in clicks and sales, we will be hearing from Amber Paul, DMS SVP of Distribution and Adam Greenlee, DMS Director of Affiliate Marketing. So before we get started, I would like to tell you a little bit more about Adam and Amber. With nearly a decade of experience in affiliate marketing, Adam Greenlee is recognized in the industry for his analytical mindset and his creative approach to sales. In his role at DMS, Adam guides his team as they facilitate successful results, acting as a key connection point between leading advertisers and successful high quality publishers. Adam is known for deploying an innovative sales approach and his commitment to identifying and exploring new opportunities in the affiliate industry, like the creative use of listicles.
0:01:32.0 ML: It is also Adam's birthday. So if you don't submit anything in the questions feature today, you should definitely submit a quick happy birthday to our dear Adam. And of course we have Amber Paul with us. Amber is known as an industry veteran in the digital marketing space. She is well renowned for her dynamic skillset, which includes everything from marketing strategy development to customer acquisition and branding solutions for B2B marketing. Amber has more than a decade of matching branded high performing offers, delivering quality traffic to elite advertisers and maximizing ROI for customers and campaigns. And of course that means that she is very familiar with the power of listicles and how you can use this very creative content option to not only engage your customers, but also drive clicks and sales. Listicles are a natural evolution of scrolling and skimming. So let me have you hear a little bit more directly from our panelists on all of the things that listicles can do to help you drive clicks and sales. Adam and Amber. Welcome.
0:02:39.9 Adam Greenlee: Thank you.
0:02:40.4 Amber Paul: Yeah. Thank you. Excited to be here and thank you so much for the really warm openings, you killed it. Alright. Should we dive in?
0:02:48.2 AG: Yeah, let's get into it.
0:02:49.1 AP: Let's do it, and happy birthday.
0:02:51.1 AG: Yeah, thank you.
0:02:52.3 AP: Alright. The rise of listicles. This is a fun topic for us because listicles are still kind of new if you want to call it that, within the affiliate marketing space, but what is a listicle? It is an article that usually doesn't take long to read, require too much deep thought. It's the natural evolution of scrolling, skimming, social media dominated culture that characterizes so many interactions online. So it's exactly what the word is, mashed together, list, article, all into one. The easy and quick format drives users to purchase brands, and it can really be a way to get a lot of information to your users in a very short run through. For us as marketers, if we're looking to capture savvy audiences, the right placements on listicles could be really effective at scaling engagements and conversions. I'm sure a lot of you hear that there's a lot of buzz around content marketing, different articles, comparison sites. This all falls within the listicle family. And let's also kind of just call this exactly what it is. Our online users have a very short attention span and they're very easily distracted, so we have a very short window in which we can grab their attention and a listicle format is the perfect way to do that without overloading them with information.
0:04:10.3 AP: It's really important to create and choose listicles wisely. We have a lot of experience with testing all the different formats and styles. So we're really excited today to share some of our tips and tricks we've learned along the way. These are our seven qualities that are our favorite and they are known to make your listicles perform. So with that, I'm gonna go to our first one, which is really matching the format to the objective. This is a great example right here. It is a lot of things, you know, 47 things that'll help you get ready for warmer weather ahead. I could probably name at least like 15, including maybe like a new bathing suit or some new sunglasses, but with that, listicles are curated lists, based on experience, research, quantifier metrics or editorial options. The type of list should match both the advertising objective and the need for the audience. A lot of you probably see different listicles online that are geared towards seniors. And then when you're looking at all of the different brands or articles listed, you'll find that they really kind of match up to that demographic.
0:05:17.3 AP: An example that we also have is if a car maker wants to promote its fuel efficient vehicles to environmentally conscious consumers, a listicle of cars with the best gas mileage based on EPA measurements would be ideal. Meanwhile, a tax preparation company may want to draw on its audiences based on tips on how to get the biggest tax return. You always want to have your format matching the objective and what it is that you really want to express to the consumer. So with that, I'm gonna kick this over to you, Adam, because I think point number two is one that you're the expert on.
0:05:52.5 AG: Yeah, absolutely. So the reason why you want your content to fit your audience is because people engage more with things they're familiar with. They engage more with things that are relative to them. You could make a listicle that's super broad, but you will not see as nearly as much engagement as you would if you were properly targeting your target market. So, this is one of the main attributes of success with listicles is the relevancy. You have to make sure that the content fits your target market. Not only that... Not only should the products on your listicle fit your target market, but the content and language should as well. The language within the listicle should be easy to understand, not take up too much time. You don't want to have just super wordy listicles but just keep it relevant, easy to read, easy to understand.
0:06:50.5 AG: And yeah, I mean, one of the things about this, we're kind of like looking at it right here. This is obviously kind of targeting a more, I guess, a younger yuppy-type crowd with the new highest, or the new best suits. So knowing your target market and what their interests are, this immediately becomes engaging to them.
0:07:12.8 AP: Alright. So Adam, I guess what you're kind of saying is like fashion, that no matter how good it looks on the rack or the image, if it doesn't fit the person you're trying to sell it to, then you probably won't get the buy?
0:07:24.3 AG: Exactly. That's exactly right.
0:07:29.6 AP: Okay.
0:07:30.5 AG: People don't wanna click on things that they don't think are relevant, when they see something that is relevant, it immediately engages their interest.
0:07:40.2 AP: Let's roll definitely into our next slide, which is design. We want everything to be very visually arresting and pleasing on listicles. Sometimes listicles have too much content which causes the user to then just kind of get lost in a sea of words. You wanna have images and graphics that speak to the user. I mean, much like the email marketing series that we've done. You need to kind of bring out some sort of emotional attachment, engagement to the user or have an image of some sort. If it is a product that showcases the product. GIFs tend to work well. If you really wanna get fancy, you could throw in some videos in your listicle. But images are 100% crucial to making sure that your listicles also get across the image with the content.
0:08:36.0 AP: The best listicles are authoritative. Many lists are kind of subjective, but the subjectivity does not need to be transparent in the listicle. Effective listicles become the authority on their proclamations. So what that... To kind of break it down is you probably get like Yelp, 10 best restaurants in Los Angeles. Well, if you were to just bump out a list of 10 restaurants but not have images of the beautiful food on their menu, or perhaps the beautiful setting in which the restaurant is and the user would potentially be dining, then you wouldn't be attracting as much attention or excitement from the user. So in tandem with the content, you really need the visual aesthetics and beauty with your listicles. So invest in the stock photos, invest in maybe taking your own photos, and invest working with a great designer or design firm on making sure that you have all the images that can keep the user excited. With that, Adam, I'm gonna kick it back over to you for slide number four.
0:09:44.6 AG: Yep. And one of the other things you need to do to actually gain your audience's engagement is you have to differentiate your listicle. Your listicle can't just appear like something they've probably seen a couple of times. I'm sure a lot of our audiences, for example, [0:10:01.0] gift guides. There's gonna be... Now, they've probably been hit with a lot of gift guides. Like why is this one any different? Why would they want to engage with this one? One of the points of listicles is to appear like new information, not even just new information, but information your audience wants to know. And so there's multiple ways you can differentiate your listicle. You can get as creative as possible, just make it something that is different. Maybe it's a different type of target market, maybe it's a different type of product. There's all sorts of things you can do.
0:10:42.5 AG: One of the main things we like to do over on our side of the company is that we generally focus a lot on seasonality. And so that could either be an actual season. We have spring, summer, fall and winter listicles, and then you can get as creative as you want there. But then also we do listicles for every major holiday. So Father's day, Mother's day, Memorial Day, 4th of July. It doesn't matter. You can pretty much build a listicle around any type of holiday, just make the product kind of relevant to what you are promoting. You can't just slap top summer gear onto a top winter gear listicle, it wouldn't make any sense naturally. So you do have to make it relevant to whatever seasonality you're going towards. And then differentiation really starts with a headline. So whenever it comes to the headline, you want to make sure that it is something unique, and you also wanna make sure that it is exciting as well as descriptive. So one of the examples I have is you could do like the top 14 gadgets for hikers this spring. That's a very specific, engaging headline, and it would work a lot better than the top 14 hiking gadgets, because I mean, if you're targeting that market, they've probably seen that headline like a thousand times so. And that kind of goes more into what Amber's gonna talk about, which is keywords.
0:12:07.8 AP: Oh, wait. Well, actually I do have a couple questions for you. So to your tagline, do you think entering in like the year makes a big difference?
0:12:16.1 AG: Yes. So especially when it comes to gadgets around the holidays, you can do like the top 15 gadgets of 2022 that are gonna sell out, stuff like that. So yes, maybe sometimes a year, it's not always relevant, but yes, it does, in certain circumstances.
0:12:34.6 AP: So it kind of lets the user know that the content is relevant? Speaking about the same year? Okay. One more question on this because you see this a lot. You work with a lot of listicle clients. Creative decay, how often do you see that we're really needing to have these listicles and their taglines and just kind of like the format and flows updated?
0:12:54.8 AG: Yes. We constantly want to update our creatives. It does kind of... Some of these get worn out, but you generally take what works and you keep building upon that. Going back to kind of what you're saying with the year, you want... One of the best parts of that is not only does it differentiate the content, it makes it seem fresh. It makes it seem like something that's new, some new knowledge that people might not know yet. [0:13:21.9]
0:13:24.1 AP: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Ties in with what we were just kind of mentioning is keywords. So that can actually tie into taglines, too. So my lovely moderator, Melissa, if we could switch to slide number five, that would be amazing. We'll keep going then. Alright. Well, while we're on the topic, oh, there we go. While we're on the topic of keywords, I think everybody on this webinar knows who and what Google is and importance of keywords. Yet, a lot of times, this is missed when content is created. There's so many different tips and tricks from a keyword standpoint that you can work with on listicles. To start, you really want them to be easy to read. You can kind of have your core keywords and then you can utilize your long tail keywords, but with that, targeting the right keywords could really be kinda your make or break between generating a lot of traffic or generating a lot of conversions. So when you're putting together your keywords, do your research ahead of time, see what your competition is doing, utilize Google, and actually some of your lower tier search engines to see what users are looking at.
0:14:49.9 AP: Different terms, big fan of thesaurus.com to kind of get an idea of different terminologies. But another tip and trick that you can do is definitely go and check different hashtags and see how you can incorporate that into your key terms because you can also get organic traffic through hashtags, not just for overall Google ranking. If you have a Google AdSense account, which [I] highly recommend, you can also place that on your listicle, and then you can have your Google AdWords account too, that'll also help you with monetizing your keywords that way. We do find that several keywords will change based on seasonality, based on user preference and what's just hot in culture at that time. And you can utilize that to get traffic to your listicle and have an extra ranking. So, as Adam mentioned, if you have 14 gadgets for spring hiking, well, you could also add on something like, "Hey, approved by Kim K" or, "Kim K likes number seven". There's just different Google rankings and just different keywords you can add all over to your listicle. So that one, at the end of the day is content is king and it'll remain king especially with driving consumers and getting their engagement on your listicle. So, speaking of engagement and our users and hashtags, I think this one is you, Adam.
0:15:55.0 AG: Yeah. So, I mean, this is just back to what they teach you on the first day of advertising, which is word of mouth is one of the best ways to get the highest ROI. And thankfully with online marketing, you have sharing. You want your content to be easily shareable, not only just easily shareable, you want to give people a reason to share the content. And that goes back to basically everything we've kind of talked about up until this point, whether it's specifically towards your target market, differentiates itself, it seems like fresh information, you do want your content to be incredibly shareable, so you have to encourage your audience to share. This, like I said, ties back to everything. I think that one of the things, it's easier said than done, but if you know your audience and you give them a ton of great content, they will actually, probably be more prone to share. And of course, this goes without saying, everybody should know by now, but definitely include all the social tags and everything like that so you do make it easier to share within the page. So make sure those are actually listed on the listicle.
0:17:12.4 AP: Hey Adam, so like sales, you can also ask the user for the share. Right?
0:17:18.9 AG: Exactly.
0:17:19.0 AP: You could even put it on your pages, like, "You liked this link, share this with your friends," or "Use these to share", like you can actually drive the user there, correct?
0:17:28.4 AG: Exactly. Yeah. I mean, that's one of the main things you can do. At the end of the day, you have to give them a reason why they'd want to share. So for example, here, 10 futuristic gadgets that you can buy. If it's something that seems super interesting to tech people, they'd definitely wanna share it, so.
0:17:49.3 AP: Awesome. I've seen [it] on a couple of listicles and I think this gets overlooked, but you know, if you liked our article, like us on Facebook or share with your family and friends. I think that's one common tactic that can always be done, and then, from there, kind of like vice versa, and you can just send the user around with the share. Like if you liked our article, repurpose it and whatnot.
0:18:09.6 AG: Exactly. Exactly.
0:18:10.5 AP: I've even seen some listicles say that at the bottom, “We are syndicate-friendly. We are more than happy for you to syndicate this page” because that does result in organic traffic. Alright. Well, then let's go to our last and final point that we have here. Let's spend a little bit of time on this because I think this one gets overlooked a lot. I know we're in advertising and not necessarily truth-vertising. However, with listicles, we 100% wanna make sure that we're fulfilling our promises in order to capture the user and make sure that our listicle really builds that reputation that you want your users to continue coming back, referencing your site, and then, potentially buying or taking the action that you want to take place. So, an example would be if your listicle promises 10 great dresses.
0:19:02.0 AP: And I guess that's, a great dress is kind of, that's to the buyer's interpretation. However, if it is promising 10 great dresses, then you need to deliver 10 great dresses, just plain and simple. You can't just deliver seven or you can't put a skort in there, or some shorts, it needs to be 10 great dresses. And that's how any listicle should be formatted. Sometimes we'll see a campaign or an article that is put together where you have 15 reasons why you need to go on vacation this summer, and you end up seeing kind of like duplicates of those reasons. That will crush your validity with the user. And then sometimes they'll question maybe who actually put the article together and what their intent was with that information. So another example of this one would be, five auto insurance companies that you should consider when looking for savings. Well, if you have two of your five as the same company? [0:19:57.1].
0:19:58.3 AP: Assume that the company with the two points wrote the article, the user would probably [0:20:05.1]... versus somebody who has expertise in saving with auto insurance. So this is really, really important. Consumers are less likely to return to an unattractive website or one that is not factual with the information or if they had a bad experience. So with fulfilling our promises, we really wanna make sure that our pages have a nice flow, that they're clean. And then we also wanna make sure that all of our landing pages are mobile optimized. It used to be 40% of users were mobile to 60% desktop. Well, now we're seeing much greater mobile ratios. So double check, make sure that it still looks nice online. You're fulfilling your promises and the user can still see that all that information is nice on your mobile device. Yeah. That's probably one of the overlooked ones, but Adam, I do have a question for you on some of this. How can people use listicles to help build reputation? We've kind of gone through this one like building out the listicle, how we can present it, how we can format it, but how can we really utilize these to build up a reputation with our users and even say, some of our partners who have data and have the ability to create additional users?
0:21:18.4 AG: The thing about listicles is one of the main pros of using them is that they do come across as organic content. In fact, like whenever we are building listicles and whenever we are working with advertisers to optimize their presence on listicles, we tell them, you need to make sure that the content comes across as organic. Because as you mentioned, it has authoritative appeal to it where people are being told what the best products are. We've used fashion a lot, so listicles that come across as organic as possible because people don't like being kind of sold to. And so, this is a way to, have this kind of validation added to their brand. They are on a list of top products or top services or ways to save money or everything like that. There's multiple things that you could do. And that's kind of one of the best ways to build your reputation. And that is better on these than having something super salesy. Occasionally we will work with an advertiser and they send us content and it's very salesy. It comes across as like a television ad. And that's not what these are. These are not supposed to look like ads, they're supposed to look like... That's not how it's supposed to look. Actual content that a user would want to engage with, stuff that is going to whatever ambition they have, so that's kind of the goal of listicles and that's how they generally work best is content like that. And that does build the reputation too.
0:22:58.3 AP: Okay. And then, so on kind of like, say like the email side, like, let's say, we have this list of users, or we're trying to build up our first party reputation. A listicle is actually a great way to engage with your users and kinda build that reputation with an ESP and build out your newsletter to start versus just kind of pummeling the user with ads right away.
0:23:14.9 AG: Exactly. So like I said, the creatives that we use with email are, they appear like articles. The headline is a headline, looks like an article to a headline on 17 top things that new homeowners should be doing right away to save money. That comes across as way better than brand helps you save money because people would immediately know that's an ad. And so these super organic-looking headlines have a higher engagement rate than simply coming across as kind of salesy. That's generally where these lists will thrive. They look like real content. [0:23:53.6].
0:23:55.6 AP: Should a brand be concerned about being featured with other brands on a listicle? Sometimes this question comes up a lot, like, Hey, my brand is showcased with other brands, but that's not necessarily negative. Right? It actually...
0:24:05.5 AG: That's not... No, absolutely not.
0:24:05.8 AP: It builds up your reputation, right?
0:24:08.9 AG: When there's multiple brands on a page, like Amber said, it does look like it's real content. It looks like something that somebody put together that has what they believe is the best way or secrets or whatever it may be. I mean, these listicles vary so much. They're not just ecommerce. They could be [0:24:30.1] lead gen, they could be whatever your end goal is. So yeah, that's actually a really good thing to be listed along with others. If anything, you just want your brand to be listed and not your competitors.
0:24:41.4 S4: Okay. That is a very good point. Alright. I like that. So I think with that, we've kind of concluded a little bit going through our main seven here. So I hope everyone kind of took everything or was able to take away a couple of points here. I really, I like your closing with you want your brand on the listicles instead of your competitors.
0:25:00.5 AG: Thank you.
0:25:00.9 AP: That's above all right there. Melissa, I think we'll go back to you with a few minutes left and we can do some Q&A.
0:25:07.3 ML: Yes, for sure. Adam, Amber, thank you so much for providing all of those amazing tips to help our listeners to turn these listicles into effective marketing tactics. But what I heard that really stood out is, our brains love listicles. From everything that you described, what was super clear is that this is less about content consumption and it's more about content consideration. We know that our consumers are being bombarded with so many messages from so many different mediums that we are constantly competing for that real estate, right? And their consideration. We are competing for their time and attention. And it looks as if listicles are a really creative way to present a lot of complicated information in a format that is super easy for our brains to digest and in a way that feels fun and engaging. And you're getting the answers to questions that you might have. You're definitely stimulating a need that you may or may not know that you have, but you're doing it in a way where you don't feel like you're sitting there reading a 12 paragraph article or something that is super dense and super complicated.
0:26:10.4 ML: And I love that you highlighted how that really plays into this social media dominated culture where we are in a zone of scroll. Because listicles are super complementary, not only to what you're doing in content marketing, but also in your email marketing strategies and your social strategies. It could definitely have a life in so many places. I love that you spoke to the importance of delivering on your promises and really being aware of what your audience needs and making sure that the content is a good fit for them, but also realizing how important listicles can be if you're trying to generate really strong SEO, because this is a great way for you to beef up an article with keywords and key phrases without necessarily writing a full white paper, or a report, or something that is going to be a more arduous process for your teams, but you're still getting out these really awesome pieces of content that connect to the actions that you are trying to drive.
0:27:09.8 ML: I thought that was super, super important. So thank you guys for highlighting all of that. I know I am a sucker for a good listicle [chuckle] and that's for sure. So before we dive into Q and A, I wanna go over a listicle of my own. I wanna get into the three key things that you need to know about DMS that truly differentiate us in the market. For many of you, you already know that DMS can help you with customer acquisitions, with listicles, and many more solutions. DMS is a leading provider of technology-enabled digital performance advertising solutions, that means we leverage the power of our toolset. And what is our toolset? DMS toolset is our first-party data asset, it's our proprietary technology, it's our expansive digital media reach, these are the foundation of how we connect advertisers with consumers. And affiliate marketing is one of the many digital performance advertising solutions that we offer.
0:28:03.7 ML: Here at DMS, we are constantly onboarding new publishers and advertisers. I'm super pumped right now 'cause I'm getting ready with many members of the DMS team to go to Affiliate Summit East in New York City and we are constantly on the road at these major shows, working with publishers and advertisers, but also because our team is fully remote, you can access the expertise of team DMS at any time. So if you are ready to start working with DMS and you don't already have a specific contact here, don't worry, just email us at connect@DMSgroup.com and that is your first step in getting connected with an affiliate manager or a DMS sales rep. So now that I have taken my time and we've gone into my little listicle for today, let's see if we could just cover two quick questions before our time runs out. So Adam, I'm gonna start with you. You provided a really great amount of data today and I think you set the tone for how impactful listicles could be, so getting a little bit more into the tactical execution, what is the right number of offers to include in a listicle? Is there a magic recipe for what works best?
0:29:18.5 AG: Well, the more the better, depending on your objective. You don't wanna have 50, unless that's something that really works.
0:29:29.2 ML: Too much, too much.
0:29:29.4 AG: But you don't wanna have five. We like... One of main... It's not really the number, but more like... For some reason, odd numbers work better, so 17 works better than 10, unless you're doing a top 10 countdown type thing or whatever, but yeah, for some reason, odd numbers are like...
0:29:49.1 ML: That is super interesting. Maybe it's because the odd numbers resonate a little bit differently because they're not used as often, but the top 10 is immediately recognizable as something that gets validity among consumers. Do you think that might be part of the reasoning?
0:30:07.9 AG: Yeah, it goes back to the headline, kinda like sticking out. It does stick out a little bit and yeah, we generally see that works better, but yeah, like I said, there's really not a magic number because it varies and also people... The people that we work with on these listicles, they change them all the time, so... They bounce around, really.
0:30:32.5 ML: Yeah. So Amber, I wanna kick over the next question to you 'cause I know that you've experienced a few stories of listicles going viral and really helping content curators get a lot of notoriety in a positive way for something that they created that was, maybe, for fun or certainly wasn't intended for the amount of traction that it received. So based on your experiences, what are your favorite formats of listicles?
0:31:04.0 AP: Easy to read, of course. My attention span is about the attention span, probably of a toddler, so it needs to be pretty well laid out, bullet points, straight to the point, authoritative content, why we need to do this, or why this is important, with really nice aesthetics. If you have a celebrity or two that sits in there, that's always nice. But also listicles that are just in a straight to read format, something that can be saved, something that can be referenced, and, in some cases, something that I can take a nice screenshot of to reference for later or it just has enough information that would show in the screen of my phone, and I actually love love love the old school BuzzFeed formats. They really are kind of like the pioneers of the listicles space and still continue to have really great articles. Yes, they do go viral. So hopefully that answers your question some, but if you're looking to attract women in their 30s that like to spend money online, definitely make sure that your listicles look like that.
0:32:09.4 ML: Amber, do you think that listicles are better when they're mostly copy, should it be like a balance of copy and graphics, and are listicles the right place to use memes or GIPHYs or videos, are there some best practices around there?
0:32:29.7 AP: Absolutely, absolutely, use memes and gifs and videos. Again that attention span, you need to keep it going, and if there is a ton of text, then the likelihood of keeping the user scrolling, then that turns into an article, if it's just a bunch of copy. You want to have a list, which is your shorter copy, but having the images also keeps it fresh and enticing and again can kind of allow you to really understand what it is that the author is trying to convey and the method of writing style that they have. So it helps to kind of determine whether or not the listicle is meant to be more informative, it's supposed to be humorous, it's more of an opinion, what type of an opinion it is, so graphics really help with that.
0:33:14.6 ML: So Amber, what I love about what you're saying right now, is that in addition to being very effective in helping to drive clicks that can lead to sales and this opportunity to continue re-engaging your audiences, it also seems like listicles are also really great at the top of the funnel, just for general brand awareness and helping you to really continue to build this rapport with your target audiences because it's creating that opportunity for you to convey your brand's tone and message and really establish that relationship early on and kind of lead to an introduction of what could be a long-term relationship. So it's interesting that listicles can really fit in so many different areas of the funnel, as long as you are looking at it, using these seven best practices to make sure that they align with everything that they need to be incredibly effective.
0:34:07.2 AP: Absolutely, I have kind of an example for you to use, window company. You just go to somebody and say, "Hey, I want... Do you wanna buy windows or looking for windows?" Most people might not know that they're looking for windows, but if you have a list that is put together that is seven homeowners ways or smart homeowners'... Ways that smart home owners are saving money and windows replacement is in there, you're gonna be a lot more convincing selling a user to get their windows replaced through that criteria along with the other tips for them to save money. First it's just, you should get new windows.
0:34:44.1 ML: That's a really, really good point, I remember when I was... My husband and I just got engaged, he Googled, "I'm engaged, now what?" And actually found this list and ended up being a subscriber to a number of different newsletters as a result of it, but he was like, "Hey, I know the 10 things that we need to do now that we're engaged", and that will always be my favorite listicle story, because clearly he is the target audience for this. Last question before we close. We do have a question that came in here, are there any offers, Adam, this could be for you or for Amber, but are there any offers that you don't recommend using a listicle for, is there anything that just doesn't work well?
0:35:28.9 AG: I don't think there's an offer that wouldn't work on a listicle, I think it's more like, will this offer work on a specific listicle? So you could build a listicle around anything, so you could figure out a way, if there's an offer, any offer we have, maybe there is a way to build a listicle around it, or a listicle that is [0:35:51.4] right for it.
0:35:53.5 AP: For your target audience, right?
0:35:57.0 AG: Yeah, or the target audience.
0:35:57.3 AP: If they're figuring out how to build [0:35:57.4] their target audiences [0:35:58.6], right.
0:35:58.6 AG: Exactly, but there are some times where it's like, sometimes the offer just won't work on specific type of listicles. There's also, also it's a different criteria that gives more into the performance side of it, but yeah, that's just to answer your question, yes and no, so it just depends on the offer and the type of listicle being made basically.
0:36:24.4 ML: Very true. So as long as you're working with a team that understands best practices, you're deploying the expertise and you're really evaluating each piece, understanding what your objectives are and how you're gonna be measuring success as you would with any marketing tactic, then you're setting yourself up to be successful with listicles.
0:36:44.6 AG: Yep.
0:36:45.5 ML: Amazing, well, thank you both so much for sharing your time and your expertise, it is always a pleasure to have you on DMS Live. Our next DMS Live event is lead generation campaigns and best practices, and that is featuring Deanna Milkie, who is the DMS Director of Strategic Partnerships, and Courtney Walsh, DMS Client Success Director, so I hope that you've got a lot of amazing information from Amber and Adam today, I know that I did and please join us next time on DMS Live, have a great day everyone.