Do you RE-3? It’s the name of the game in 2022! This episode of DMS Live is breaking down everything you need to know. RE-3, or re-activation, re-engagement and retention, can help you maximize your monetization opportunities. As cookies continue to fade away, the more you know about and implement real-time data strategies, the better off you’ll be. This episode of DMS Live explains it all.
Do you RE-3? It’s the name of the game in 2022! This episode of DMS Live is breaking down everything you need to know. RE-3, or re-activation, re-engagement and retention, can help you maximize your monetization opportunities. As cookies continue to fade away, the more you know about and implement real-time data strategies, the better off you’ll be. This episode of DMS Live explains it all.
0:00:00.1 Melissa Ledesma: Hello, everyone. Good morning, good afternoon, wherever you are coming from. Welcome, thank you so much for joining us on this next rendition of DMS Live. We are so glad to have you with us today. My name is Melissa Ledesma. I'm gonna be your host for today's DMS Live. Let's dive right on in. We are here today for The More You Know: How Audience Intelligence Drives Superior Multi-Channel Messaging and Engagement. R3 is the name of the game in 2022. What's R3? Well, it's reactivation, re-engagement and retention. But you're gonna hear a whole lot more about that in just a little bit. Now, from email, to push marketing, to personalization, the more you know about the best practices of real-time data strategies across media channels, the more money making opportunities will come your way, and there are truly no two better professionals to help you focus on monetization than our panelists today.
0:01:04.7 ML: I am thrilled to introduce you to Amber Paul, SVP of distribution, and Jason Rudolph, also known as JR, who is our Chief Technology Officer, both here at DMS. So with Amber, we are talking about combining an entrepreneurial spirit with well-versed affiliate marketing. Amber has certainly established herself as an industry veteran and expert in all things digital marketing. She is well known for her dynamic skill set when it comes to marketing strategy and development, but she also has an incredible reputation for customer acquisition, branding solutions and B2B marketing. Amber is also on the steering committee of the nonprofit trade association, Women of Martech, so she is leading our industry on multiple fronts.
0:01:53.8 ML: And of course, you cannot talk about JR without talking about his wealth of industry knowledge and tech savvy. JR has proven himself to be a powerful asset and pioneer in the tech space. He has a stream of successful business ventures behind him, and he is known for innovation all around. Let's take this forward because I know that these two have a whole lot to talk about today, and I cannot wait for you to hear from them. Amber, let's get going. All things DMS, data signals, what have we got today?
0:02:26.0 Amber Paul: Okay. Well, first off, thank you for that lovely intro, I think I'm still blushing over here and I'm sure JR probably is, too. Very, very kind words. So thank you very much for that intro. Yes, let's dive right in. Just to kinda set the tone here, maybe Google slapped you this year, Facebook might have banned your account, maybe Yahoo locked you out recently, the 3Rs are coming to the rescue. And that's what we are here today to talk about. So we are going to highlight the importance of reactivation, re-engagement and retention, with the utilization of data signals. As advertisers, as publishers, as digital marketers, we're responsible for maximizing these three R's and building a more sustainable future for our industry, making advertising a more positive experience for users, brands and publishers alike.
0:03:16.7 AP: How can data signals help, you might ask? You probably heard the term before, but maybe you're not as familiar with what they actually do. It's rather simple, understanding when your users are active in their online behavior habits will save you time and money. This will help prevent you from spending advertising dollars on non-active or disinterested user profiles. Simply put, smart intent-based advertising is what data signals are. But I wanna start from the beginning, and JR, I'm gonna kick this over to you a little bit because you are the best person to dive into this for us. Can you break down for us exactly what data signals are and how they can help your business?
0:03:54.5 Jason Rudolph: Yeah, I have no idea. I was just listening to you... You did great, that was really exciting and I was totally compelled. But no, I absolutely can. I think without going too deep into the tech stuff, basically what I'll say is, we'll start with the assumption that everybody has data. I know not everybody does, but most of our publishers, most advertisers, most digital marketers have some interaction with data. So we'll kind of start with that notion: You have data, it could be an email list, it could be a customer list, it could be something that's in your CRM, essentially a database, you have data of people you've interacted with. The idea behind an intent signal, it's really what it is, is just simply a real-time event that happens, and it could be a page view, it could even be a phone call, it could be an email, click or open.
0:04:47.7 JR: And basically what an intent signal is, is basically taking that moment in time, that real-time event, matching it up with that data set that you already own, and taking that moment in time and considering that, the consumer's intent at that precise moment, and finding a way then you can leverage that moment in time. So historically, the way that data has worked is you've kinda had it in this database, it's on a shelf, you might be mailing it, you might be creating an audience with it, but with an intent signal, that allows you to do [take action] at that exact precise moment, so that helps you keep your data fresh, keep your data active and only be really leveraging it and utilizing it when the consumer is online and ready to interface and interact with your product, or your offering.
0:05:36.2 AP: Okay, so you're saying that essentially, let's just say that I just got paid the other day, utilizing data intent signals, you could probably pick up on the fact that because I just bought some plane tickets to a really nice vacation destination, maybe the next thing I'm interested in purchasing is a new bathing suit or maybe some new sunglasses for that vacation.
0:06:00.4 JR: Sure, I think that's a great example. Another great thing you just pointed out was that you've been paid, you're going on vacation. So what's happening is, if we know where you are, we know that you're not home, that you're in a place by your location, by your GOIP, you're in Hawaii... Well, you live in Orange County. So it's like, it's still warm, it's not like up here in Seattle, but anyway, we know that we're not gonna try to sell you... I'm not gonna try to sell you a North Face coat, right? We're not gonna put a North Face advertisement in front of you, we're not gonna put an ad for skis or snow skis or anything like that, we kind of wanna leverage not only your action, but where are you in that moment of your sort of consumer journey or where are you geographically in that moment, and is that where you normally are, and if we can recognize that that's something different and that you're in a different place, then yeah, we can attribute that behavior to how we believe your purchasing behavior will respond as well.
0:07:00.8 AP: Okay. Well, that brings up a really good point, because right now it seems like the online landscape can be really, really cluttered, and in order for online advertisers and digital marketers to kind of really capture the best interest of the consumer, the most effective way for them to improve user experience is through relevant advertising. So with that, why is relevancy so important? And why does it matter?
0:07:26.3 JR: Yeah. I think all of us are accustomed to seeing relevancy in our day-to-day life when we're online, essentially. Personally, I've been internet-ing for a very, very long time, so I'm in like a top five interneter. So I've been internet-ing since the 90s, and back in the 90s, if you were online, you would just see these random weird banners for just weird shit... Excuse me... You would just see weird stuff that was very jarring, you have no idea why you're seeing this ad for something you would never buy, and so that experience was very much something you wanted to not be a part of, and it was just kind of a known thing, it's like ads were everywhere.
0:08:04.8 JR: They were being displayed in these crazy ways, but now we're all very accustomed to... We go to Facebook, and we're seeing stuff that has to do with the vacation you just referenced, we're seeing the sunglass ads being re-targeted, we're seeing the things that we want to see that we're familiar with, and so it becomes part of the experience as a consumer, and that's... As a consumer, we don't mind, at least I don't mind that, and I think most people sort... That becomes the expectation, is that I'm gonna see things that kinda relate to where I've been, where I'm going, what I'm doing that don't really like necessarily stand out to me as being odd, they are just things that I've already been considering and looking at. And again, we talk about this and this kind of notion as a consumer journey, most people don't just buy things the first time they look at them, that's why we have a whole industry around retargeting, and remarketing and re-engagement. So yeah, I would say relevancy is important to the consumers, of course, so as privacy, but I think that people expect a certain amount of relevancy in their experience when they're online.
0:09:04.5 AP: Okay. Well, not everybody has been internet-ing since the '90s. That's definitely a coined term right there, and I don't even think we have staff that have been alive in the '90s, but my point that I'm getting at here is, if we haven't been internet-ing since the '90s, why is now in 2022 a really exciting time for advertisers and publishers, especially if they're a part of the DMS ecosystem and the family that we have?
0:09:31.7 JR: Aside from us elders aging out, as you just so eloquently pointed out, but no. I think what's exciting about right now is that actually, there was a time, I would say, if you wanted to get into, say, email marketing, you wanna get into calls or you wanna get into TV ads or something like that, it was a very tough thing to do, and it still can be, and still is, but generally speaking, in other ways, if you have the right partnerships, if you have the right tools at your disposal, in a way, it's actually easier than ever to get into different types of marketing, so you can think really more omnichannel marketing as well.
0:10:08.6 JR: So example, if you're an email marketer, you have an email list, it's really a great opportunity to start exploring things like how when you get an open or you get a click, or you get a conversion, whatever that is, that you can trigger an event, a signal, if you will, that will then put that consumer into an audience. If you haven't been able to reach that consumer or see a click or an open or activity for a while, you can start to put them into other channels. You can do a push notification. So what's exciting I think about right now is we've just got all these tools at our disposal, everybody has all these partnerships and availability to really self-serve when you wanna go and experiment with different advertising, and there's just a lot of good technology out there, and it just really... it's unlimited amounts of innovation that is really...
0:10:53.9 JR: You're only really limited to your own creativity at this point. There's so many tools out there, and again, with data signals and moving data around in real time when you know what consumer is active, it just really just changes the entire game, and it just makes it a lot easier to break into all of these different channels simultaneously and leverage them in a compounding way together.
0:11:14.4 AP: I originally had some questions for you, but I think you actually answered all the questions. You touched...
0:11:20.5 JR: Oh, sorry.
0:11:21.6 AP: No, that's fantastic, 'cause then I don't have to ask you and potentially bring up the 90s again, but you definitely touched on “how do I know if my users are active through signals, how do I know if the vertical-specific content I'm sending to my users is relevant.” I mean, case in point here in Hawaii, I definitely don't want that North Face jacket, although that is a pretty good brand, and they do have really cute stuff. But then also you touched on knowing when the users are active, when they're in front of the computer, so those are really kind of common obstacles that we as marketers tend to have, so data signals really helps in limiting that, which is really, really exciting.
0:12:00.5 AP: So with that, I think we can actually... We really touched on this one slide, so I think we might even be able to move into our next slide, which goes over our next topic that we love to talk about, which is cookies and preparing for a cookie-less world. I've always thought that it's amusing with the term cookie, and I think in a lot of our training material, we have a whole section highlighted around cookies. So I'm excited to talk about this one, especially as the pixels are kind of the industry norm, but with cookies, they only last for so long and data signals last forever, which creates a really long-term value since that user and that user behavior doesn't just say drop off after 30 days when it falls off of the landing page. And, essentially I think what I'm picking up on, based on what you said, is that data signals really allow us to make decisions that cookies might not be smart enough to make. So, I don't know, speaking of smart cookies, you wanna add to that?
0:12:58.9 JR: Yeah, I would almost argue that cookies aren't smart at all, cookies are kind of stupid, but I don't mean the technology of that, but a cookie is placed on a consumer's browser, and there's really only so much data you can put in there, and you can be very creative, people do, they get very creative with how they use cookies. But again, we all know that the third party cookies at least are most likely going away at some point, browsers are starting to block things and all this kind of stuff. So I think when we talk about data signals and when we talk about an internal data asset, again, what normally we would try to store in a cookie, information, let's say that a consumer comes to a website, they don't convert.
0:13:40.4 JR: So let's say you have a mortgage landing page, or you have an auto insurance landing page, one of those two verticals, and a consumer goes to that site and maybe they start filling the thing out, or maybe they're just abandoned, and then historically, like we've set a cookie or Facebook set a cookie, you go back to Facebook and you see that that advertisement's there now, and hopefully you can convince [the consumer] to be re-engaging, but with data signals, we're storing that data really locally in our own database, we are then making decisions on the fly when that consumer's active again, which ad we're gonna show them and which channel, are we gonna show them an ad on Facebook, are we going to send an email, or are we gonna call them, do we have consent to call them?
0:14:21.6 JR: All of these decisions can be made in real time, whereas a cookie, well, the second you place that, is kind of already set, like it's got a set amount of rules around it, you can't really just change your advertising approach too much on it, until they come back again. With data signals and combined with what I believe to be the future of cookieless-ness, with more deterministic and probabilistic ID resolution, those kind of things, it really just creates a better opportunity to not just think about it in the ways of the clicks, conversions, retargeting, but really in a way of the consumer journey all the way through, again, trying to get to the right place, right time, putting the right ad in front of that consumer when they're most likely to act on it.
0:15:10.6 JR: So cookies, like I said, they go with the consumer, you set it on their browser and they're kind of off and maybe you see them again and you can act. But really with data signals, you can make these decisions in real time, like there may be a time and a place that you don't want to show them again, back to the North Face coat, like, okay, they went to the North Face site, we know that they've got a cookie set, and we can do retargeting, but if you're in Hawaii, let's just not. So those are the kind of decisions that we can make with signals versus with cookies, just gives you a bigger, broader amount of triggers and tools to work with.
0:15:48.3 AP: Alright. Wow, that's pretty helpful. I was trying to Google really quick, maybe like a punny cookie joke, but I didn't wanna lose my place, so if you come up with one while we're talking, let me know 'cause I was kind of trying to give you a soft ball, but unfortunately wasn't able to without getting distracted. Alright, well, cool. I think we should maybe jump into the different benefits that data signals can bring based on the different kinds of marketing channels that are available, so I'd kinda like to start with the channel that is obviously near and dear to my heart, and that's email. So whether you're a third-party email marketer, a first-party email marketer, even just a transactional mailer, there's an immense amount of value that data signals can bring to any mailer's existing list in their workflow.
0:16:35.8 AP: As many of us know, you're mailing on a daily basis, you're kind of removing your soft and your hard balances as you go daily, but if there's a disruption in your daily sense, some of us that are down a little bit right now from Yahoo, maybe your list hasn't seen as much activity lately, so it kinda takes time and energy and money to go through and re-build that list, rebuild that clicks and view file, and it's expensive to hygiene. So I kinda wanted to ask you, outside of that benefit from, say, our mailers, that data signals can provide, and we have case study after case study proving that this works. If you're not a mailer though, how can you benefit from utilizing data signals? So if your Facebook pub or maybe you're a mailer that you've had some... You kind of hit some rough times over the past 60 days and you wanna expand based on the data that you do have in data signals.
0:17:31.5 JR: Yeah, that's a great question, I think. It's near and dear to my heart as well. I was a mailer in this industry many, many years ago, so I understand the sort of struggle of exactly what you said, you go down for a while, you come back up and now you've got all these sort of hard bounces and things that you have to clean and kinda be very careful with. So what data signals allows you to do is really change your strategy and rethink your strategy into more real time, that it almost feels more transactional and organic, the way that we are mailing with signals. And by that, what I mean is, okay, you're a mailer, you've got your set of data that we all know you have.
0:18:12.8 JR: As an event comes in, as a signal comes in from a partner who you might be getting signals from, which could be an email open from somebody else, it could be a page view, it could be a phone call, it could be any number of things that let you know that that consumer is still active, so the second that that comes in, for example, as a mailer, you could send off an auto-response and you could send off a very customized auto-response based on the vertical that's associated with, or the website that the open was associated with, or the call it came in from.
0:18:41.0 JR: So what happens is you kinda create more of a transactional organic mail approach, and signals come in at a very big volume, I mean, we have a lot of signals that come through the DMS ecosystem because they're, like I said, they're page views, they're email opens, so millions and millions of data signals are happening, and these events are happening. So if you have a list of however many, I don't wanna speculate on people's list size, but if you have a list of whatever, and you have signals coming in that are sort of taking these consumers and then sending an email just the second that you know the consumer's online and you know what devices they're on, you know if they're on a mobile device or desktop device, all of those things, you can decision in real time and just let the system decide, "Hey, I wanna kick off this email message based on if they're mobile or if they're desktop." So it just gives you all this flexibility with this sort of, like I said, more organic approach to mailing, and then at that point too what you're getting is that, you know, you're pretty much guaranteed that that consumer's data is still good, that it's not gonna bounce.
0:19:41.5 JR: Of course, that's... There's always... Could happen, but generally speaking, mostly it doesn't. So we know the consumer's active, we have a valid email address. We have a more recent email that they have opened and responded to, signal comes in, you send out an email, you're more likely to get a click or an open in that moment. Like you said, we've got use case after use case of this working, of open rates, click rates going through the roof, of conversions going through the roof. So as a mailer, I think we've seen a lot of success around that type of program, just really changing the way that we think about it. And then to just add really quick on some of the other channels too, imagine that a consumer clicks on your email and based on that, you leverage that as its own signal, right?
0:20:30.8 JR: And we all do that. The mailers look at opens, and they look at clicks, but imagine instead of just putting that into another list or kicking another email off, that you then trigger an event that... It works with connected TV, so now next time they're on Hulu, they see an ad for the same thing that they clicked on in the mail. So you can really go very, very big and wide with this type of program where you're getting signals to fire off emails and that is a signal in itself when they react to that email, so now you're sending, again, back to this omnichannel experience. It's just very exciting, and I think that a lot of our publishing partners have seen a lot of success where we have been testing is through that sort of notion of testing this more omnichannel solution versus just sending mail.
0:21:16.5 AP: Okay, so two channels I think that...
0:21:17.2 JR: No, go on. Sorry.
0:21:20.1 AP: No, you're great. Two of the channels I think that we've had a lot of success with as well would be, one, Facebook, with building really solid lookalike audiences with data signals, correct? And then also utilizing push. That's another method in which we've really been able to re-engage users, kind of reactivate them, so it's actually gonna take us to our next little segment, kinda doing a full circle here from what we began with, and that's really just the different real-time data strategies that we're utilizing to maximize monetization. So we spoke about reactivation, re-engagement and retention. What would be your favorite reactivation example, maybe that you have, and if you'd like, I can kinda kick off with a re-engagement example too.
0:22:07.0 JR: Sure. Yeah, I mean, if you wanna kick one off, go right ahead. [chuckle]
0:22:10.7 AP: Yeah, I mean, one of my favorites that we've been working on... Sorry, Katie, on the slides, we kinda jumped around a teeny-tiny bit there, but from say a re-engagement, just going back to some of our down Yahoo guys right now, we've been able to pair a couple of our partners up with some data signals where instead of having to keep mailing that user over and over again to figure out if they're active, we've been able to give them information right away to say, "Hey, the last time this user was online was two weeks ago, they've just signed up for a refinance, we probably don't wanna hit them again with another mortgage offer, but hey, if they're refinancing, we wanna make sure that they have the proper asset security. So let's set them up with life insurance, let's make sure they have a home warranty, maybe let's also make sure that they maybe wanna redo their windows or do some home improvements," so I'd say that would be a really good kind of re-engagement example that we have.
0:23:02.7 JR: Yeah, that's a great one. And I think, again, that speaks to the power of signals versus sort of standard retargeting, where you might just have a visitor to the mortgage page you mentioned, and maybe you're trying to get them back, but really with signals you can just go so much broader with that, and not only that, but another... Well, I'll go into reactivation, because I think that we touched on that a little bit on email, and you did a great job on the re-engagement. So, on reactivation, again, like with the email, let's just say you have a list that you have that's, I don't know, 100 million records, like som
0:24:12.5 JR: So that's a really powerful tool. We use it inside of DMS to keep our data fresh, just to make sure that we're always looking at the e insane amount of data that you'll never be able to mail, like you can't just put that in an email system and hit send and email 100 million records or everybody would do it, right? And, so what you would wanna do then is if you have that database sitting out there somewhere in your system and you get an intense signal, you're basically what I would call "taking that consumer off the bench," and I've used that terminology a lot, but that's how I think about reactivation. So basically you've got a bunch of consumers sitting in a database somewhere, a signal comes in and says, "Okay, this one's good, this one's active, let's put him in my active list," or, "Let's send them a message right now." Most active sets of data across our gigantic data asset. You gave a great example on re-engagement. And then retention is something I'm super excited about, this is something that I believe is the future of our space and lead generation specifically. So a couple of good examples of retention or a good example, I'll say like mortgage is a good example. Auto insurance is a great example of where you have a consumer who comes in, they sign up for a product, they become your customer, okay? So whether it's a mortgage or it's their auto insurance, whatever it might be, let's say it's auto insurance.
0:24:57.8 JR: So now you have a customer, you're an auto insurance agent, and the notion that we're constantly marketing to people, these people are always being marketed to, it's a very competitive landscape. If you were able to know that your consumer, that is your customer, I should say, your customer is in market on another auto insurance product somewhere, that they're in market somewhere that they just called or they just responded to a message about auto insurance, if you were able to know that and you were able to then trigger a retention strategy, our a retention like workflow, so that you could start reaching out to them, calling them, emailing them, getting in front of them on Facebook at that moment that you knew they were in market with maybe a discount code or whatever it is, I mean, we believe...
0:25:45.2 JR: I believe that that's, in some cases, more valuable than a new lead itself because you're protecting your book of business, you are investing less money up front... Than you would to onboard a new client or a new customer, you can then just focus on the retention, nurture the relationship that you already have and continue to scale your book of business instead of always fighting against the competition to keep them. That's just another strategy, another tool in your toolbox. So I'm really excited about retention again, like I said, I think that's really a big part of the future of our lead generation space, is to be able to leverage retention versus new leads a lot of times.
0:26:25.3 AP: Okay, and I know we're running up on time a little bit, but you actually just touched on this too, about the safety of your data and your brand. I mean, this all ties together in a very kind of compliant and very safe ecosystem. So we don't have to touch on it on maybe this segment, but maybe we do a 2.0 on how we can tie in everyone's favorite discussion topics in addition to data signals and compliance and all of those items that go around that. I think we might need to run to Q and A, but I'm gonna divert to our lovely moderator, Melissa, actually, and see the best use of our upcoming time here.
0:27:07.2 ML: Thank you, Amber, You guys have done an amazing job. Definitely wanna be mindful of everyone's time. There is something that we have to get into before we get into Q and A. If you have any questions and we do not get to them, again, please make sure that you include your email address in the question that you submit to the GoTo Webinar function and I will be sure that you get your answer directly from our panelists. But before we do, we're talking about really the future of digital advertising, and that is where you guys started the whole presentation, was the idea of this excitement that even though there's a lot of unknowns and definitely challenges that advertisers and publishers have encountered right now, and certainly over the last two years, there's a lot of excitement of what is to come, and this is a really great time to be in digital marketing. So, now DMS is known as being tech-enabled and data-driven, we are all about performance, so JR and Amber, I'd like to put this question out to both of you. When you think about DMS and what sets us apart, what immediately comes to mind as the major differentiator?
0:28:14.6 JR: I think your slide tells the story here, right? Which is the first party data asset, we have a lot of our own owned and operated properties, we're constantly and continuously bringing in fresh data into our data asset that we, again, leverage for our signal program to continually refresh that sort of consumer intent, and our proprietary technology. We have technology platforms that are really built by publishers, for publishers, for advertisers, to really help create systems that really help empower our partners, and that's really, I think, what sets us apart. And, in addition to some of those things, we've mentioned messaging and emails, and all these kinds of things. So we have a really nice tool set in our push notification products, we have a great signals ID resolution product, so anything that we've talked about today that anybody would like more information on, certainly I'd be happy to talk to you myself, and I think a lot of people inside DMS have a lot of information on this would like to talk to you as well, but I'll leave that to Amber too to kind of fill in as well.
0:29:25.8 AP: I don't think I could have said it better than you already did, but just piggy-backing on what you had to say, I mean, our core values absolutely revolve around providing our clients with the best services and solutions that the industry has to offer. And on to your point, a lot of our technology was built by publishers for publishers, for advertisers, so we understand the intricacies of what our customers are dealing with every day, and we're here to provide solutions for them, simply, we wanna make everyone more money, whether you're an advertiser, publisher, brand marketer, we're gonna help you make more. And with that, I'm really excited to see people coming. We'll be at three different shows. We'll be in Tulum. So if you're planning on heading south of the border, love to see you there. Affiliate Summit East will be in the Big Apple, and then in Barcelona, it's this summer in España. We're really excited to see all of our clients there and continue to have these conversations with them.
0:30:30.2 ML: Thank you, Amber. Thank you, Amber and JR, thank you so much for joining us today. They are totally correct. If you don't want to get information from us digitally, you can definitely meet with DMS in person, but you don't have to wait until the conferences to get connected to the experts at Team DMS, you can always contact us at Connect@DMSgroup.com. Digital Advertising continues to evolve, and audience intelligence is helping advertisers to better pinpoint the right people with the right message at the right time, in the right place to encourage action. That is how we all make profits, folks. So data signals represent the next chapter for digital advertising, it's informing advertisers when their target audience or current customers are actively shopping. So now is the time to leverage data signals, to reactivate, re-engage and retain your audiences as you maximize monetization. Thank you both again for joining us. I invite all of you to come to our next DMS live on Wednesday, May 18th for the nine qualities of an effective listicle that result in clicks and sales. I know I am a sucker for a good listicle, so this is gonna be a great presentation. Amber will be joining us once again for that DMS Live, along with Adam Greenlee. I hope you all have an amazing day and we will see you next time on DMS Live.